The Punctuation of Luke 23:43. Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be! Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by MartyF, Jun 23, 2019. ? Exactly, the moving of the comma changes both the structure and the meaning of the sentence. This is often quoted as conclusive evidence that the righteous, at death, go immediately into heaven to dwell with Christ. The Mistaken Comma at Luke 23:43 From an 1882 Pamphlet Verily, I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:43 John 14:2 2 Cor. Certainly the true meaning would be better understood if the comma were correctly placed after the word today. In order to do this, a comma is placed after σημερον, to-day, and then our Lord is supposed to have meant, "Thou shalt be with me after the resurrection I tell thee this, To-Day." Yes, every single comma in your New Testament was added by the translators. "Verily I say to you, today you shall be with me in Paradise." A. Luke 23:43 KJV, 'And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." Featured Comma in Luke 23:43. 3:20 1 Thess. Luke 23:43 “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. * Luke 23:43 KJV And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. However, other rules of sound Bible study also help us to understand Luke 23:43 Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise. Before because I’m KJVO. There was no punctuation in the earliest Greek manuscripts of the Bible. A discussion on the placement of the comma in Luke 23:43. As you can see by other responses to your question there is some contention over this verse. (Votes can change and are displayed.) “And he said to him: ‘Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise,’” (Luke 23:43 NWT). > Check the comma out at Lu 23:43. > I notice that in Luke 23:43 'Truly I tell you today you will be with me > in paradise,' the W&H text has the comma after 'today' whereas the > common bible translations have the comma before today. Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by MartyF, Jun 23, 2019. ? Since no punctuation was used in the original Greek text, the punctuation marks were placed there by the … He complained of the NWT’s “attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today’ in Luke 23:43,” when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! Top Posters. Results are only viewable after voting. Page 2 of 3 < Prev 1 2 3 Next > agedman Well-Known Member. Featured Comma in Luke 23:43. By moving the comma over, it changes the meaning of Jesus' words so that He is not promising that the man would be in paradise that very day. Thread starter posthuman; Start date Jul 12, 2018; Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. New American Standard Bible And He said to him, "Truly I … Top Posters. 4:17 Hebrews 11:5 2 Peter 3:10 ... 26:29; 2 Cor. What does it mean? Let's look at John 20:17. 1). "And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." 3:14,15. Another biblical scholar, Edward Earle Ellis, offered a more tenable explanation of Luke 23:43. Clarke's Luke 23:43 Bible Commentary To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise - Marcion and the Manichees are reported to have left this verse out of their copies of this evangelist. Luke 23:43-----A Case of the Misplaced Comma Showing 1-53 of 53 messages. (The same meaning is conveyed by all the mainstream versions.) Where does the > comma go ? Remember the ancient Greek had no > punctuation. Luke 23:43 NIV, 'Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." . Nor is the reference to a 24-hour period. (Votes can change and are displayed.) Luke 23:43. Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be! The Emphasised Bible translated by J. The Gospels: The Comma of Luke 23:43. Luke 23:43 Believers are promised they will “put on immortality,” that will happen at the resurrection, not at death. LUKE 23:43-"Truly I tell you today,You will be with me in Paradise"(NWT)- Where should the comma be placed? Luke 23:43-----A Case of the Misplaced Comma: James: 4/26/13 10:54 AM *Luke 23:43 in the King James Bible reads, "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Should the comma be before or after today in Luke 23:43? — Luke 23:43, Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible translation. The above is how The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures render Jesus' well known words to the criminal beside him on the stake. The first thing that any person who wants to determine where the comma goes has to keep one thing in mind--Koine Greek did not have a comma. 43. I am sorry to find men of great learning and abilities attempting to support this most feeble and worthless criticism. Should Luke 23:43 read, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (RS), or should it be, ‘Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise’? The question raised cannot be answered by any appeal to the original text, so far as the proper place of the comma in this text is concerned. the comma before "Today"? According to New Testament Greek scholar E. W. Bullinger, the comma really belongs after the word “today.” The reason for this concerns the use of the Greek word for “today,” Site … The comma being after “today” also fits with the immediate context. By the way, I want to clarify, in relation to my comment above, that Luke 23:43 is an instance where syntax emphatically DOES make it clear where a pause in the sentence goes, and thus, where a comma is required. The comma is always placed before the word "today." So the comma you see there was placed there by the > translators. He complained of the NWT's "attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today' in Luke 23:43," when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! This is not how most translations so render. Luke xxiii. Notice the placement of the comma which causes an entire doctrinal omission: New World Translation: Truly I tell you today, [notice comma placement] You will be with me in Paradise. Before because I’m KJVO. Here is the verse. Should the comma be before or after today in Luke 23:43? Luke 23:43 Hebrew Bible ויאמר ישוע אליו אמן אמר אני לך כי היום תהיה עמדי בגן עדן׃ Luke 23:43 Aramaic NT: Peshitta ܐܡܪ ܠܗ ܝܫܘܥ ܐܡܝܢ ܐܡܪ ܐܢܐ ܠܟ ܕܝܘܡܢܐ ܥܡܝ ܬܗܘܐ ܒܦܪܕܝܤܐ ܀ Additional Parallel Greek. "And He said to him, "Truly I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise. > (Luke 23:42, 43) . Why hasn't it been changed to reflect modern day thought on the matter? Either accidentally or on purpose. Some of the early Christian teachers had been taught a Greek philosophic concept called the immortality of the soul. In Luke 23:43 Jesus said, “Today you will be with Me in Paradise.” In John 20:1-17 we read Jesus meets Mary on the first day of the week and says, ‘Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: Jesus could not have been with the thief in heaven that Friday if … Here it is. Is there a Biblical basis for placing it AFTER the word TODAY instead of before it. Before After I’m still deciding. Luke 23:43 - Punctuation To return to Dr. Mantey's criticisms, we next find him complaining of the NWT "attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after `today' in Luke 23:43," when he knows better than anyone that none of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation! Before After I’m still deciding. The seventy-sixth occurrence is Luke 23:43. Place it at another place, and you get a whole different > concept. 1:21-23 Phil. In view the above, it is evident that the comma should have been placed after the word “today” in Luke 23:43, and not before it, as is done in many Bible translations. Jesus granted this unrighteous individual his wish by saying “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) The Apostle Paul explains that there is going to be a resurrection of righteous and unrighteous individuals in the coming Paradise on Earth. By moving the comma over, it changes the meaning of Jesus’ words so that He is not promising that the man would be in paradise that very day. 2). "And he said to him: 'Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise,'” (Luke 23:43 NWT). --See "Understanding and Translating 'Today' in Luke 23.43," by J. Hong, published in … which contradicts 2000 years orthodoxy in favor of heresy I don't follow heresy by moving commas > > > > > > >> It has been argued that the Greek text is ambiguous on this point, and that the position of the comma (before or after the word “today”) determines the sense of Christ’s statement. (Acts 24:15) Does JW teach that Luke 23:43 was corrupted? When they saw texts like Luke 23:43, they took it as proof of that concept. Results are only viewable after voting. Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > MartyF Well-Known Member. ... they say so and said it 600 times—but not at Luke 23:43 or in any of the other seventy-five occurrences of the phrase.] Yes we do. He zeroed in on three expressions: “today,” “with me,” and “Paradise.” Today Ellis didn’t question the placement of the comma before the word, today, but still said, “This does not mean … that Jesus expects an immediate parousia. Fascinating question. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where … American King James Version ×. When it comes to Luke 23:43, bias dictates where someone puts the comma. And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” The paradise, of course, being "the rest" and today being the "today" of the discussion in Hebrews. 5:8 2 Cor. Parallel Verses. Did Jesus Christ tell the thief on the cross that they would be together in Paradise that very day, or did he say on that day, that they would be together in Paradise? The teachings of Christ and the rest of the Bible must be the basis for determination, and not a comma inserted in the text centuries after Jesus said those words. For the punctuation marks in Luke 23:43, there are three possibilities: to put a comma before the word "today," to put it after "today," or to put a comma both before and after "today." 12:2-4 Colossians 1:5 Phil. 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